response to glenroy
g-roy
I understand the enigmatic concern with communicating a genuine experience with God. Perhaps that is part of what this emerging (or contemporary for that matter) generation needs affirmation of the reality of mystery. I think that is one difference between our previous method of communicating Christ and the emerging one. Where once we held to an attempted belief in the rationally available and definable existence of God, we now find people enjoy mystery, embrace mystery, and appreciate mystery. I think an appreciation for mystery is behind some of our emerging attitudes to scripture too we are moving away from a position that sits above the text and assumes understanding and control, and we are beginning to embrace mystery, finding that we cannot assume complete understanding. So, I suppose part of our expression of an experience with God is affirming the reality of mystery in our experience.
Another thought that has struck me is exactly towards what you mentioned an experience of God in everyday life. Or, as I like to put it, an experience with God. Maybe it is just me, but I believe part of a true communication of the reality of God is enabling people to becoming more human. What I mean is that I think the Christian church has erred in promoting a worldview, or at the very least a way of life, that essentially distances us from our fellow human being. I suppose it finds itself personified in our us and them mentality to evangelism. You know we’ve got something you don’t. My hope and heart would be that the church would begin to become the environment that embraces people from all walks of life, all experiences, and provides an atmosphere where genuine love and grace is exercised. And I think we as believers can learn a lesson in this too, that there are facets to being a human that we unfortunately have denied in our modern Christianity. Pain, suffering, sorrow, joy, pleasure, comedy, tragedy are universal. I believe we can experience these with Christ. Our understanding must become aware that God is with us all through the mundane, routine, extraordinary, and profound. I would hope I can encourage both physically and verbally in my life that I believe Jesus is with me in such experiences. Thoughts?
- originally posted by DT
11 Comments so far
Leave a reply
canada sucks without megan.
shopping sucks without you megs. honestly i haven't had a good shopping experience since you left. i need a good oppion and a good eye. megs, come back to canada so that we can go shopping!
Good thoughts. To the first paragraph: I have been thinking about mystery this weekend, actually. I was going to post on my site (www.openconversation.com) but wrote something else instead. funny. When I use the concept of mystery with \'modernists\' (re: most established church-goers my age or older) they latch on with some pie-in-the-sky picture of their rational god just hiding in the clouds somewhere. that was a bit sarcastic, sorry. you know what i mean. But the mystery of God that the emergence can appreciate embodies the God who hasn\'t told us why evil runs rampant, the God who just might accept homosexuals like he accepts me, etc. The mystery of God is that after all my education, I still don\'t know what he really wants in so many areas of life; that he still seems so unattainable yet somedays just seems to haunt all my steps. A truly mysterious God is not an absolute God, the way we\'ve always defined him. He is full of contradictions that we cannot properly explain away with apologetic or Josh McDowell books.
To paragraph 2: I like what you say. Yet let me bring thse thoughts to what really matter to me: that most of those who think of such things are in some way leaders, or in leadership, or being 'groomed'. We so quickly turn our experience into a tool, a sermon illustration, that we have to give people. The real meaning of experience is only given to the one who experiences it. I am so guilty of spiritualizing all of mine before they even take root. I need to just set my life to the experience of God and let those around me be warmed by the glow that results in my life. I know that is what you are saying. I just feel the need to affirm my conviction on this: we can't get caught in the mindset of christian education, when every song we hear, video we watch, sermon we sit through, all just go into the machinery that chugs out teaching material etc. We need to experience them for ourselves, fully. The church is truly guilty of what you say. In other words, It is more concerned with being right than being good. The sacredness of values and ideals has created a smokescreen that everyone must walk through, and it isn't acceptable to be broken. Broken has to be fixed, or does it? I could go on but I won't.
Personally, it seems that the idea of mystery would contradict the way of our culture(at least in its modern state). We strive to explain things through science and formulas not leaving any room for mystery. Ideas/observations which were once thought of being mysteries of God have now been explained away through science and if the future continues on like the past, many other current mysteries will eventually be explained. Kind of leaving God out of the picture. Or instead, I guess could strengthen the intelligent design arguement or other arguements for a God. This idea of mystery I\'m refering to (what I previously thought mystery is mainly about) deals more with the physical world and its operation as opposed to the few examples Glen gave. And I think that is what the mystery is more about…who God is himself and questions we have of our experiences in relating with him. So, I like the idea of an emerging acceptance in the mystical or the change in our thoughts of mystery. It may take the pressure off of trying to scientifically/logically figure him out so we can more fully enjoy/love/appreciate/express who He is and experience him in new ways.
paps…props on mentioning \"mystical\" – i think that the spirituality we\'re discovering now is increasingly mystical. i think our generation is so much more open to the mystical and spiritual aspects of our faith. it goes in hand with this thirst for a genuine encounter with God. i doubt if it will ever occur in the churches we\'re used to, but i\'m hoping and praying that in my ministry i truly come to value and appreciate the more mystical spiritual gifts like prophecy, tongues, discernment. their role has become so silent in most mainline evangelical communities. glen…dude…i hear you so loudly. i\'ve only briefly entertained the idea of over-spiritualizing life…perhaps i need to give it more thought. i know in my life, in a position of leadership, that there is that expectation to illustrate everything practically. perhaps we\'re moving towards a more biblical based teaching/speaking approach? let the text speak. like those NOOMA videos. hmm…we\'ll talk more i\'m sure. i\'ve got to think…
DT – liked the NOOMA videos. kind of had my own church on sat nite/sun at home alone. i let a U2 dvd lead me in worship, then nooma instruct. Pastor DVD has good insights… you'll have to forgive me when i jump all over stuff – i am in a headspace that is eradicating the old lingos and 'approaches' for the sake of seeing with new eyes. but thats me, not everyone else. i'm trying not to have judging tones when i write, it just seems to come out that way (sidenote). PAPS – Mystical is good, but it seems that just calling the unexplained things of God 'mystical' leaves me no reason to embrace what appears to be a dwindling side of his nature, as you pointed out. But what you have said is all good. I need to think about this some more.
i was cleaning my desk and found this quote i thought you might like: \"What the world longs for from the Christian religion is the witness of men and women daring enough to be different, humble enough to make mistakes, wild enough to be burned in the fire of love, real enough to make others see how unreal they are.\" Brennan Manning
DT – that Manning is always good for a quote. he wrote some pretty radical stuff too i think. thanks.
It's true what you speak of Glen, that some of my most deep experiences with Christ has come in my or another's basement exploring the true text of the Scripture, or some of our world's most real musicians. As much as psychobabble (Or messages that take certain passages of scripture and wrap an idea around it such as how to handle money) are good for a massage or even for some daily life issues, it still leaves me longing for a genuine experience of Christ found in the early churches in Acts. I found that it is when Scripture and context is at the forefront of a message (Such as Nooma's explanation of a disciple) and the message we receive from it can be taken in the context of the time and added to our own life today that I find a true connection with with Christ in my mind and my heart. In regards to PAPS' comment, I find it's when we try to put our God into ourown frame of understanding and explain Him that we lose sight of the mysterious personality of our God who did amazingly unbelievable things in unbelievable ways, thus making the same things in our time semmingly irrational and therefore unbelievable.
Reading some of the ideas here and over on the glenroy OC lead me to compose something on my own blog that I think is relevant to this last string of comments. Its a little long to post here but feel free to have a look at "Theodrama" over on: http://scottsharman.blogspot.com